Vaccines Are Causing Measles. Child Who Caught Measles From Vaccine Was Shedding Live Vaccine Measles Virus In Throat and Urine

When health officials in the press criticise parents who do not vaccinate, and some on blogs attack you personally for raising justified concerns about vaccines, you can tell them the evidence is clear, and you can read it here, the vaccinated are more likely to kill a child because they are vaccinated. 

So when someone makes the accusation, send them the link to this CHS post:

http://wp.me/pfSi7-2an

And you can tell them, it is parents of vaccinated children who are most likely to be responsible for those deaths. It is also health officials who fail to warn parents or do anything to ensure effective treatments are developed which might have saved the lives of those who have died or would save those who will die because of the parents who had their children vaccinated.

Read on and you will see current evidence shows it is not just measles but whooping cough and polio vaccines as well.

Regular CHS readers will know to expect health officials will deny vehemently the live measles virus in the MMR and measles vaccines can be passed from a vaccinated individual to infect others with measles [horizontal transmission].  Regular CHS readers will also know to expect that one too many health officials are simply untruthful about vaccine safety and efficacy issues.  They routinely grossly exaggerate disease risks, including from real examples shown here on CHS where some have been caught being untruthful about these matters.

CHS recently reported on MMR vaccine failure with vaccinated individuals catching wild measles and infecting other vaccinated individuals in highly vaccinated populations and there are continuing mumps and whooping cough outbreaks in highly vaccinated populations: US MMR Measles Vaccine Failing – Vaccinated New Yorker Causes Measles Outbreak In Other Vaccinated New Yorkers – Not Caused By Unvaccinated Children.

Most people do not know 5% of those receiving the MMR vaccine catch measles from the live virus in the vaccine:

About 5% of immunocompetent children receiving their first dose of MMR vaccine have mild measles with fever and rash. The vaccine strain can cause severe measles in immunocompromised people.”

British Medical Journal [BMJ] CASE REPORT Rash in a 15 month old girl

What most people also do not know is that the live measles vaccine virus is shed by those infected with vaccine measles.  We give an example here from a medical journal.  So this shows that the vaccinated can kill.  As there are more of them, the chances are higher they will.  But you are told to vaccinate your child to protect those who cannot be vaccinated.  And many people know the old adage “coughs and sneezes spread diseases“.

Here is an example of a vaccine infected child with symptoms of measles shedding the virus in the throat and urine:

We describe excretion of measles vaccine strain Schwarz in a child who developed a febrile rash illness eight days after primary immunisation against measles, mumps and rubella. Throat swabs and urine specimens were collected on the fifth and sixth day of illness, respectively. Genotyping demonstrated measles vaccine strain Schwarz (genotype A). If measles and rubella were not under enhanced surveillance in Croatia, the case would have been either misreported as rubella or not recognised at all.

Spotlight on measles 2010: Excretion of vaccine strain measles virus in urine and pharyngeal secretions of a child with vaccine associated febrile rash illness, Croatia, March 2010

Here is a case in which vaccine measles developed well outside the normal period for incubation of measles:

Virus genotype was determined by the National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg, Canada as vaccine strain, genotype A, MVs/British Columbia/39.13 [A] (VAC)”

Case of vaccine-associated measles five weeks postimmunisation, British Columbia, Canada, October 2013

Now, do you think that if someone dies from vaccine caused measles, anyone would hear about it, or that if it was publicised, no one would lie about the cause not being vaccine measles?

One of the big lies last year in the UK (and there is unfortunately no other word for it but “lie” as it was deliberate) was parents were told that their healthy child could die if not vaccinated with MMR and that 1 in 1000 who catch measles will die.  Data from the UK Health Protection Agency shows there have been nearly 107,000 reported cases of measles in the UK since 1992 but not a single healthy child or adult has died from a case of acute measles since 1992.  That is in 22 years. The only deaths since the last death in 1992 from acute measles have been in 3 already sick immunocompromised individuals and not healthy children vaccinated or not.  So there have been no deaths in all that time in the 5-10% of children not vaccinated but officials falsely claim 1 in 1000 who get measles will die. 

And this is with “herd immunity” too, although as the vaccines have been failing so too have the claims about the vaccine coverage to achieve “herd immunity” been rising, starting with 55% in 1967 in the USA to what was 90% and the 95% being claimed now.  It will soon be 100%.

So what and who are you supposed to believe?  Not public health officials.  They have regrettably proven themselves repeatedly over decades to be unreliable sources of information.

See the figures and especially the quote at bottom of HPA web page:

Prior to 2006, the last death from acute measles was in 1992. In 2006, there was one measles death in a 13 years old male who had an underlying lung condition and was taking immunosuppressive drugs. Another death in 2008 was also due to acute measles in unvaccinated child with congenital immunodeficiency whose condition did not require treatment with immunoglobulin. In 2013, one death was reported in a 25 year old man following acute pneumonia as a complication of measles. “

Measles notifications and deaths in England and Wales, 1940-2013

What the UK HPA omit regarding the death of the 25 year old in Wales was that he was not like your child is likely to be.  He was unwell and immunocompromised.  He was on medication, was severely underweight, was being treated for an alcohol addiction, and he then died two days after being sent home by his own doctor with no medical attention when he then had been seen with a measles rash and in the middle of outbreaks of measles in South Wales UK.  And mention is barely made of the fact that pneumonia after measles was “one of the ‘most likely’” causes of death so it is not even certain it was the pneumonia after measles that was the certain cause:

Giant Cell Pneumonia was one of the “most likely” causes of death associated with measles.  …..  The inquest heard blood and urine tests showed Mr Colfer-Williams, who was very underweight at only seven stones seven pounds despite being five foot nine inches tall, had taken a variety of anti-depressant and other drugs.

Man who died during Swansea measles epidemic died as a result of the disease, inquest hears  Jul 01, 2013 

People who get natural measles have always enjoyed lifelong immunity. Now it is clear that because of vaccination adults may have to have routine boosters of measles vaccine.  So vaccination seems to have destroyed natural disease immunity in the population.  That is a remarkable achievement for  a measure introduced to supposedly eradicate measles in the USA in just one year,  1967: “Measles To Be Eradicated in 1967 With 55% Vaccine Coverage”

It failed then, kept failing during the 1970s, failed again in 1984 in the USA and 1988 in the UK and other countries with the introduction of the MMR [with the also unnecessary mumps component].  Failed again when MMR two doses were introduced because one was not enough.  Failed again and again as health officials kept raising the level of vaccination coverage to achieve supposed “herd immunity” [they started with 55% coverage in 1967]. And now even with 95% coverage levels it is failing.    After that it will be 100% coverage enforced with compulsory vaccination and it will be failing again, with boosters already being suggested for adults.  Now that is an under-impressive record for medical “science” [or should we say pseudoscience? Because that is more accurate.]

The destruction of natural disease immunity is yet another step along the route of making citizens believe and feel they are dependent upon the state and those who control it for their health and security and that of their families and children, just like false flag attacks in the USA do.  The cause of adults in highly vaccinated populations contracting measles and perhaps even dying when with natural immunity they would not, is the vaccines and the vaccine programmes.  So the ways in which the safety from disease conferred by natural immunity is undermined by vaccines are manifold.

And it is not just those vaccinated against measles who are more likely to kill a baby.  Those vaccinated against whooping cough are far far more likely to kill a baby than an unvaccinated child.  You can see that from the following CHS article which we publish again here.

– * – * – * – * – * – * – * – * –

Ever Continuing Worldwide Vaccine Failures – Australia Joins UK & USA In the Whooping Cough Vaccine Fail Club [Again]

Just a “quickie”.  Whooping cough [pertussis] vaccine is not working in Australia according to this report published in The Sidney Morning Herald:  Whooping cough vaccine loses its effectiveness April 14, 2014 Lucy Carroll Health Reporter.

And read on if you want examples to show incompetent journalists they are just plain dumb to fall for the false explanation that the parents of unvaccinated children are to blame for the circulation of  childhood diseases. Here you can find links to mainstream sources revealing how the vaccinated are catching and passing on these ages old basic childhood diseases.

And if you want someone to blame, that is the easy bit.  The reason we do not have effective treatments for these diseases are firstly those incompetent health and science journalists or editors who have not made sure they embarrassed the hell out of government health officials [but suck up to them instead].  Then we have the medical professions.  The egos of some of them are huge [but not big enough to see through the haze of pseudo-scientific junk science they have surrounded themselves with about vaccines].  They shelved development of effective treatments in favour of vaccines, swallowing all the mumbo-jumbo pseudo-science.  And next to them we have government health officials to blame. 

That is the “who is to blame”. And what is the “what” that is to blame?  Easy.  It is vaccines, but more and over all that it is the classic example of the wonders of “science” being screwed up by the wonders of scientists, as seen so many times with things like nuclear power, pesticides and all manner of harmful applications of “science” by “scientists”.

So to Australia’s ineffective whooping cough vaccine we can add:

1) the UK.  And the USA [where in California over 80% of cases were in the fully vaccinated]:

Whooping Cough Vaccine – Doesn’t Work – GSK Says “We Never Bothered to Check”

2) CHS’ previous 2012 report of the record-breaking 5 year whooping cough epidemic in Australia:

Major Whooping Cough Epidemics – Vaccine Not Working

3) the US FDA’s own research findings that the whooping cough vaccine does not stop the disease spreading, with no effective herd immunity. [Although that does not stop the vaccine lobby and incompetent journalists blaming the transmission of naturally occurring diseases on the parents of unvaccinated children – when that is clearly wrong]:

Whooping Cough Vaccine Does Not Work – Says US FDA’s Research

And

4) we might as well throw in measles with the failing MMR vaccine in the USA which is also the same one used for years in the UK since 1994: Merck’s MMR II.  And again this shows that measles can be caught and transmitted by fully vaccinated individuals to other fully vaccinated individuals – these are not the unvaccinated but the fully vaccinated, showing it is clearly wrong to blame naturally occurring diseases on the parents of unvaccinated children – when that is clearly wrong:

US MMR Measles Vaccine Failing – Vaccinated New Yorker Causes Measles Outbreak In Other Vaccinated New Yorkers – Not Caused By Unvaccinated Children

5) and we also add the failing mumps vaccine in Holland [Netherland], where of course as vaccinated individuals catch mumps and pass it on to other vaccinated individuals, you should now be realising that it is fairly dumb to blame naturally occurring diseases on the parents of unvaccinated children – when that is clearly wrong:

Epidemic of Mumps among Vaccinated Persons, the Netherlands, 2009–2012

6) and the mumps failure was also already happening back in 2005/6 in the UK:

Government Risks Male Sterility As Mumps Vaccine Fails

7) and then there is the smallpox vaccine which never worked anyway [unless killing the recipient counts, as it was pretty good at that]:

Smallpox Eradication – One of History’s Biggest Lies & How Vaccination Did Not Eradicate Smallpox

Small Pox – Big Lie – Bioterrorism Implications of Flawed Theories of Eradication

8) and then there is the polio eradication which cost India US$8 billion and in just one year 47,500 cases of what was probably called polio back in the 1940s and 1950s, namely what is now called non polio acute flaccid paralysis [NPAFP].   NPAFP is twice as deadly as polio and bizarrely clinically indistinguishable  from polio and occurred in India in proportion to the number of polio vaccines given.  Again, deadly NPAFP disease cannot be blamed on the parents of unvaccinated children – this shows that is clearly wrong – the polio vaccine clearly seems to be the culprit:

New Paper – Polio Vaccine – Disease Caused by Vaccine Twice As Fatal – Third World Duped – Scarce Money Wasted – Polio Eradication Impossible

BBC World News – Bill Gates’ & WHO’s Polio Eradication Plans Under Fire Today – Polio Cannot Be Eradicated & “US$ 8 Billion Spent On This Only Well Spent If We Learn Never To Do This Again”

Bill Gates Polio Eradication Plans – To Cause The Polio Equivalent of 235 Years of Cases Of A Twice As Deadly Disease

Bill Gates – Buying Immortality In History – By Beating An Already Beaten Disease & Killing Kids

9) and of course the flu vaccine in the USA does not work, so again pointless blaming parents of unvaccinated children for the flu:

New York Times – Flu Vaccine Does Not Work – Yet More Research Says

 Piers Morgan Very Sick Days After USA TV Flu Shot Stunt Backfires – Piers Told “Don’t Ever Take A Flu Shot Again”

Can You Trust Known-to-be Corrupt Governments When They Also Push Useless Flu Vaccines – US Talk Radio Dr Michael Savage On The Savage Nation January 11, 2013

10) and flu vaccine in Australia, where it is again pointless blaming parents of unvaccinated children for the flu:

Australia Bans Flu Vaccine – Child In Coma – Many Hospitalised

“Don’t give children flu jab” says chief medical officer

Australian Government Dumps On Sick Kids Injured by ‘Flu Vaccine

11) and flu vaccine in the UK, where it is again pointless blaming parents of unvaccinated children for the flu:

Now UK Recalls Another Novartis Flu Vaccine – Agrippal – Recall Follows EU and Canadian Bans of Agriflu and Fluad Flu Vaccines

New Flu Risk From Vaccine – “a very effective way to spread flu” – New Nasal Spray Vaccine

Most UK Medics Refusing Flu Vaccines – UK’s New Chief Medical Officer Resorts To Bullying

12) and flu vaccine in the EU, where it is again pointless blaming parents of unvaccinated children for the flu:

EU Flu Vaccine Bans Still Unreported – Medics Sick After Vaccine Refuse More

EU Takes Emergency Measures Over Glaxo’s ‘Flu Vaccine – Causes Narcolepsy in Children

Children Get Narcolepsy From Flu Vaccine – Confirmed in British Medical Journal

13) and flu vaccine in Canada, where it is again pointless blaming parents of unvaccinated children for the flu:

EU And Canada Flu Vaccine Ban – Not Reported By Press

14) and flu vaccine worldwide from assessment of clinical trials, where it is again pointless blaming parents of unvaccinated children for the flu:

New Study – Flu Vaccine Doesn’t Work

15) and how dangerous these flu vaccines can be – now you cannot blame parents of unvaccinated children for THAT!:

Flu Vaccine Caused 3587 US Miscarriages & Stillbirths

Flu Vaccine Cripples Healthy US Cheerleader for Life

EU Takes Emergency Measures Over Glaxo’s ‘Flu Vaccine – Causes Narcolepsy in Children

US Drug Company Released Deadly Virus In EU In Vaccine

Children Risk Untested Flu Vaccines In Hyped Pandemic

Australian Government Dumps On Sick Kids Injured by ‘Flu Vaccine

18 Responses

  1. In 1994, during the MR ‘Catch-up’ campaign, my 5-year-old daughter went to school on the day of the campaign, did NOT have the vaccine but spent the day with all her classmates who did. 10 days later (the incubation period for measles), she came down with measles which was confirmed by the Koplix spots in her mouth by the doctor. She was treated homeopathically and was/still is absolutely fine but the vaccine can indeed cause cases of measles, both in the vaccinated and in the unvaccinated.

  2. That vaccination with Merck’s M-M-R(R) II vaccine may cause some who are vaccinated to contract measles and, worse, atypical measles as well as other serious adverse reactions including death in pointed out in the package insert for that vaccine.

    For a review that discusses most all of the issues with measles-containing vaccines, the interested reader may want to study http://dr-king.com/docs/130906_Mealses_MeaslesVaccinationRealities_AFormlRespnseToEndangeringTheHerd_final_br1.pdf as well as the other applicable articles posted in the “Publications (by year)” subsection of the “Documents” web page.

    Based on limited reporting, there are at least “300” cases of vaccine-strain measles in the USA each year and there appear to be several orders of magnitude more deaths (about 550 annually) causally associated with vaccination for measles, mumps and rubella than there are notified deaths for measles, mumps and rubella (< 2 total on average for these three diseases).

    For more on the reasons the MMR vaccination program fails to provide lifetime protection from measles re-infection, the recent article at http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/herd-immunity-myth-or-reality?utm_source=Master+List&utm_campaign=004c39a42d-Greenmedinfo&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_af50e1f25a-004c39a42d-87637245 explains the facts that clearly show that the theory of "herd immunity" from vaccination is fatally flawed.

    Taken together, the preceding factual realities indicate that live-virus vaccines, a) infect all of those inoculated with them with the live viruses in the vaccine, b) provide NO protection (generally to 5% or more of those multiply infected with the vaccines' viruses and limited-duration protection to most who are vaccinated, and c) do NOT provide disease "immunity" (lifetime protection from re-infection) to anyone who is inoculated with these vaccines.

    Just my science-based 2 cents.

  3. Great article! your hard work is appreciated. Thanks for all the references, some of these I had never seen before.🙂

  4. I’m a peds nurse in the states and out of the thousands of children I’ve personally vaccinated and the thousands on top of those that my practice has vaccinated…no child has developed the measles. The vaccine is a minute portion of a large strain so I believe it is possible for an immunocompromised patient to contract measles, but if that patient were given proper medical attention then they would never even receive this vaccine while being immunocompromised! Where is a list of all of the credible resources used for the basis of this article? I find that taking snippets from anything can cause the information actually provided originally to be taken out of context and made to word just as someone intends it to be. Also, this talks about measles… the vaccine also contains mumps and rubella. Now explain why measles is the only one of those 3 on the vaccine that it’d singling itself out and infecting some vaccinated or unvaccinated that came in contact with those vaccinated against it! This is a rouse with no factual study in my opinion!

    [ED: What you say is untrue. The numerous peer reviewed journal references are quoted and linked to 1) directly in the above CHS article itself and 2) also in the CHS articles linked to.

    Moreover, the paper we cited about 5% developing symptoms of measles from MMR vaccination is by a British consultant pediatrician Dr David Elliman who is wheeled out and quoted by the British media on vaccination issues and who has published numerous papers on vaccination issues.

    Are you really a paediatric nurse? If you are you show how medical professionals can mislead about vaccine issues. You have posted anonymously.

    Here for the benefit of any others are the peer reviewed papers linked to directly:

    1) British Medical Journal: BMJ CASE REPORT Rash in a 15 month old girl

    2) “We describe excretion of measles vaccine strain Schwarz in a child who developed a febrile rash illness eight days after primary immunisation against measles, mumps and rubella. Throat swabs and urine specimens were collected on the fifth and sixth day of illness, respectively. Genotyping demonstrated measles vaccine strain Schwarz (genotype A). If measles and rubella were not under enhanced surveillance in Croatia, the case would have been either misreported as rubella or not recognised at all. EUROSURVEILLANCE Spotlight on measles 2010: Excretion of vaccine strain measles virus in urine and pharyngeal secretions of a child with vaccine associated febrile rash illness, Croatia, March 2010

    3) “Virus genotype was determined by the National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg, Canada as vaccine strain, genotype A, MVs/British Columbia/39.13 [A] (VAC)”
    Case of vaccine-associated measles five weeks postimmunisation, British Columbia, Canada, October 2013

    Here are the journal papers in the CHS articles linked to:

    1) a study published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases [Outbreak of Measles Among Persons With Prior Evidence of Immunity, New York City, 2011“]

    2) “On 1st November 1966 US Government vaccine experts announced momentously to the world in a paper presented to the American Public Health Associations meeting in San Francisco, November 1,1966 that measles was to be eradicated in 1967 and just 55% vaccine coverage would do the trick. You can read it for yourself here in this formally published paper by those experts: EPIDEMIOLOGIC BASIS FOR ERADICATION OF MEASLES IN 1967

    And we also linked directly to published official UK Health Protection Agency data here:

    Measles notifications and deaths in England and Wales, 1940-2013

    And we quoted directly and linked to press reports:
    “Giant Cell Pneumonia was one of the “most likely” causes of death associated with measles. ….. The inquest heard blood and urine tests showed Mr Colfer-Williams, who was very underweight at only seven stones seven pounds despite being five foot nine inches tall, had taken a variety of anti-depressant and other drugs.Man who died during Swansea measles epidemic died as a result of the disease, inquest hears

    And if we listed all the other papers cited directly and indirectly in the CHS article we reposted IN FULL at the end of the text the list would be huge: Ever Continuing Worldwide Vaccine Failures – Australia Joins UK & USA In the Whooping Cough Vaccine Fail Club [Again]]

  5. A well researched and well structured article with some pretty compelling evidence to back up the claims. You have a very compelling and strong argument.

    [ED: Thanks for the advice which has been acted upon. We have removed it from the comment as it might look odd now. Hopefully it is now resolved but let us know if not.]

  6. […] What Poland does say is extraordinary. And as CHS has recently reported about vaccine failures, it is not the unvaccinated and it is not just the measles vaccine but mumps, whooping cough and polio vaccines at a minimum: Vaccines Are Causing Measles. […]

  7. I am now 70, but I caught a virulent case of the measles from the vaccine when I was a child. The minute the vaccine enter my body I passed out and the onset of measles was very soon thereafter.

  8. Re: Andrea Silverthorne’ May 15 comment,

    Based on some data from Minnesota in 2011, about 300 individuals annually contract a clinical case of vaccine-strain measles in the USA (see http://dr-king.com/docs/130906_Mealses_MeaslesVaccinationRealities_AFormlRespnseToEndangeringTheHerd_final_br1.pdf, page “7”).

    The number who are infected but do not develop a clinical case of the measles is at least an order of magnitude more than 300 (about 3,000) and, perhaps, more than two orders of magnitude more than 300 (more than 30,000) in a population where about 10 million doses of the Merck M-M-R(R) II (MMR) vaccine are administered annually.

    Finally, though the propagandized view is that a person either has a clinical case of the measles or he or she has no measles infection, this view is both simplistic and wrong (see “Herd Immunity: Myth or Reality?”, http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/herd-immunity-myth-or-reality?utm_source=Master+List&utm_campaign=004c39a42d-Greenmedinfo&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_af50e1f25a-004c39a42d-87637245, The Boston University Measles Study, Chen RT, et al. Measles antibody: reevaluation of protective titers. J Infect Dis 1990; 162: 1036-1042).

  9. Hi, thank you for this article, i really find it informative. I would like to ask you about the mmr shedding. My sister and i were vaccinated for the measels and chicken pox, in the end we ended up getting both. Fast foward to actually i have a one year daughter, who
    I stop vaccinating because when she got the 2 month old shots she got pretty sick. Thing is my sister getting the mmr shot i think, she is 24 yrs old, im scared to death she might shed the virus to my daughter. What do you think i should do, should i stay away and until when?

    Thank you

  10. Re Andrea Silverthorne’s Comment on May 15: I find it odd that you had such a reaction to the measles vaccine as a child, especially in view of the fact that the measles vaccine was not introduced until you were 19. In any case, that would have been a different vaccine from the one used now, which was not introduced until 1967 (when you were most definitely no longer a child). Are you sure you are remembering correctly.

    To the editor: I don’t doubt your references, but look at them. The first one you cite in your incredibly rude answer to Mz is a good example: yes, a 15-month old got measles, probably from the vaccine. It was so rare, that it warranted a note in the British Medical Joural! If it happened routinely, nobody would publish that account.

    So 300 US children annually develop a mild form of measles as a result of the vaccine? Compare that to the 480 that DIED in 1960, before vaccine introduction. As an immunocompromised individual, I’d still take a partial herd immunity over a total lack of vaccination.

    And don’t bother calling me names…

    [ED: Well not all CHS editors have the same style. And no need to call you names.

    You choose not to read and you can’t do math.

    About 5% of immunocompetent children receiving their first dose of MMR vaccine have mild measles with fever and rash. The vaccine strain can cause severe measles in immunocompromised people.

    British Medical Journal [BMJ] CASE REPORT Rash in a 15 month old girl

    5% of 700,000 births [for the UK] is not 300 children. It is 35,000. And for the US there are several times more births and it has been the same vaccine for the best part of the last 20 years used in the UK as in the US – Merck’s MMR II.

    And the evidence is against you that measles vaccines are responsible for the dramatic fall in measles mortality. The science and statistics are against you:

    Vaccines Did Not Save Us – 2 Centuries Of Official Statistics

    And we agree with you that “Andrea Silverthorne’s Comment on May 15” does seem a little odd.

  11. To the editor: You were right about my not reading! I am so used to getting only abstracts on my computer that I did not realize that the article you referenced (the BMJ report of the 15-month old with measles) was there in it’s entirety. So I did completely miss the point of the article — which I now read to be that the child developed a clinical case of measles immediately after being immunized.

    Again, why did this make a journal? Because the child developed much more than the “mild measles with fever and rash” that 5% of immunocompetent children do. “There was no reason to suspect that this child was immunocompromised—maternal antenatal HIV testing was negative and the child was previously well and developing normally.” Why would they have brought this up if it weren’t for the fact that the measles was worse than that expected from a vaccination reaction. And, indeed, lab tests confirmed that it was not caused by a vaccine strain. The conclusion of the article that you so proudly cite, does not support your thesis that people get full-blown measles from a vaccination.

    That said,vaccine-strain measles virus IS shed in saliva, feces, etc. That’s why immunocompromised patients are routinely warned to avoid people who have been immunized with live vaccines. I was on the internet researching how toxic my niece is to me, and my searches keep including anti-vaccine sites, like this one. They are fairly easy to spot: a belief in conspiracy — that the government and scientists are out to falsify information and lie — and twisting of information to suit your thesis and carefully selecting which articles to cite. It’s very similar to global warming denialist sites, and I recognize that it is futile to argue with you. I won’t be back, so no need to reply to me.

    But I did want to tell you that you were right about my not reading.

    [ED: Not only don’t you read, but when you do you read what is not there but what you want to read instead.

    For example you write “The conclusion of the article that you so proudly cite“???

    proudly cite‘ ??? How biased you are dear girl. A factual article stating facts is not citing anything ‘proudly‘.

    You then go on to claim it “does not support your thesis that people get full-blown measles from a vaccination“.

    There are a number of problems with your assumptions and claims. Firstly, the article states clearly at the outset “the vaccinated are more likely to kill a child because they are vaccinated“.

    So children developing measles from the MMR vaccine and shedding the virus so others can catch measles like a seriously ill person you seem to think does not support that. So you are reading what you want to and not the clear implications of published research.

    Your argument is that everyone who gets infected by a non vaccine strain measles develops “full blown” measles when that is not true.

    You make things up, so you do precisely what you claim your opponent does. Whilst you are not coming back we are pleased you came as you demonstrate the very issues about your own conduct which you falsely allege about this site.

    You assume everyone who catches measles develops “full blown” measles. But in fact everyone is different. Up to 60% of individuals have been found to have developed measles asymptomatically – which means they have no symptoms – which also means for the period they were infectious they were “carriers” who could shed the virus and infect others but neither they nor those others would know about that.

    And some people may develop symptoms, but they may be mild.

    You then make the bizarre observation that “That’s why immunocompromised patients are routinely warned to avoid people who have been immunized with live vaccines.

    It is bizarre for a number of reasons. Who aside from you reading things that are not there says any such patients are “routinely warned” of such things? And then the whole point of mass vaccination programmes is meant to be to create “herd immunity” so that others do not get infected.

    You then claim “anti-vaccine sites” …. “are fairly easy to spot: a belief in conspiracy“.

    Now there you are ridiculous. You admit you do not read things and then make completely foolish claims which are not true. Sorry dear girl but you are either a seriously deluded swivel-eyed loon or lying. As you are not coming back we will be unable to learn from you which it is.

    You then claim sites like this are all about “government and scientists” … “out to falsify information and lie“. Dear girl, everyone knows that governments and some of their scientific advisors are well-known for their lack of probity. But here on this site if government or their officials are misleading people we demonstrate that factually. Facts are not conspiracy theories

    You see dear girl, when those like you whose arguments, like your arguments, have only alleging conspiracy theories left as their final fall-back, they, like you, have demonstrated they have not valid arguments left and have lost.

    You have been presented with a factual article citing referenced peer reviewed scientific source to make factual points based on those sources.

    You then make false claims about the article and what it says. That appears to be to us to be doing what you allege falsely those whose views oppose do. You come here and do exactly what you allege falsely against your opponent “twisting of information to suit your thesis“.

    So that makes you in your own words “very similar to” a “global warming denialist“.

    And there you have another problem. It relates to your failure to read what you claim you have. You seem to have failed to notice that the debate is no longer about “global warming“. The official line is now “climate change“. No one speaks of “global warming” these days because there has been no evidence of global temperatures rising in this century so the “global warming” protagonists have dropped the term and substituted “climate change“.

    Now, if you follow suit, does that not make you a “global warming denialist“? The very thing you complain of.

    So in your own words we “recognize that it is futile to argue with you.

    It is always impossible to have a viable dialogue with someone unencumbered by the facts, like you dear girl.]

  12. I just can’t resist one last answer, knowing that you didn’t heed my warning and responded. But I don’t follow your response. First off, to which article are you referring in the opening paragraphs? I was talking about the one you cite : British Medical Journal [BMJ] CASE REPORT Rash in a 15 month old girl.

    And I stand by my conclusion that there is nothing in this article to support the fact that an immunocompetent person can get a full blown case of the measles from a vaccine. It may be true, but there is nothing in this article that supports that. (When I say it may be true, I mean it. Witness the Croatian child with MMR induced measles. But witness also that such cases are so rare as to warrant investigation and write-up).

    As to your assertion: “Firstly, the article states clearly at the outset “the vaccinated are more likely to kill a child because they are vaccinated”. Nowhere in the BMJ article can I find that quote. That’s YOUR article.
    The BMJ article is clearly pro-vaccination: Part 2 “How can this condition be prevented?// Short answer // Vaccination with two doses of MMR to ensure adequate herd immunity.”

    And nowhere did I state the assumption that everyone who gets infected with wild measles gets full blown measles! Rather, I stated that I got from the article the notion that this case was unusually severe for a vaccination reaction. (And I backed that up with a quote from the article, if you will read).

    You then come up with an argument that is (to use your words) truly bizarre.”Up to 60% of individuals have been found to have developed measles asymptomatically – which means they have no symptoms – which also means for the period they were infectious they were “carriers” who could shed the virus and infect others but neither they nor those others would know about that.”

    How does that support your point? From my point of view, that’s an argument FOR vaccination, since you can’t just avoid active, obvious cases of measles. If the measles virus is shed from a vaccine, I at least have the option of avoiding the child for a while. But to quote another article: “Of note, only one case report of transmission from vaccine-associated measles has been identified .” (Eurosurveillance Edition 2013: Volume 18/ Issue 49 Article 3).

    But they are probably lying, right? Oh, wait, that’s a conclusion on my part, you deal only in facts. Like “Now, do you think that if someone dies from vaccine caused measles, anyone would hear about it, or that if it was publicised, no one would lie about the cause not being vaccine measles?”

    Next you accuse me of the “bizarre” assertion that Immunocompromised people are routinely warned to avoid people recently vaccinated with live vaccines. To quote your response: “It is bizarre for a number of reasons. Who aside from you reading things that are not there says any such patients are “routinely warned” of such things? And then the whole point of mass vaccination programmes is meant to be to create “herd immunity” so that others do not get infected.”

    To answer your first charge, I did not read that anywhere. That came from personal experience, where in every one of my post-transplant education classes (at three different hospitals) we were warned against taking live vaccines ourselves and it was mentioned in passing to check with a doctor before contact with a vaccinated person. I did, and was told to avoid my niece for several months. The same advice was offered to two of my friends on chemotherapy. That may not be “routine”, but it is certainly not uncommon. (And I am NOT lying!!)

    As to your second point: precisely. (??? that point is a bizarre non-sequitur if I ever read one).

    Finally, I don’t see how I twisted anything. You accuse me of “You admit you do not read things and then make completely foolish claims which are not true.” If YOU, dear boy/girl, will read carefully my opening remarks, you will see that I used the “I don’t read things” as a tongue-in-cheek reference to the fact that I happened not to scroll down in the article I referenced. And I explained why. And I did not make a single claim I cannot back up.

    And don’t get started with me on global warming vs. climate change, dear boy/girl. Here, at least you’ve done your research (even if I disagree with your conclusions). For the best summary of just how false your claim is, see http:://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-change-global-warming.htm

    Cheers! (I’m American, so forgive me if I misused that) 🙂

    [ED: No need to apologise to CHS for being American. Its other Americans you need to apologise to.

    We had a bet on with the editor who commented on your previous effort that you would be back and here you are.

    And your personal unsubstantiated unverifiable anecdotes are not acceptable evidence and establish nothing. They also belie your claim that you “did not make a single claim I cannot back up.” Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blah, blah.

    The fact is that most children get the vaccine so the vaccinated are far more likely to pass on infection and kill another person than a non-vaccinated child. The odds are stacked against your proposition. It is basic math.

    You also seem to have a “thing” for “full blown measles” when that is some idea of yours and is an irrelevance of your invention.

    Measles also is normally a mild disease and cited references can be found here to confirm that: British Medical Journal Tells Us – Measles Is Not The Scary Disease The Press Want You To Think It Is

    Measles is often highly over-diagnosed because many cases are mild and do not exhibit all the symptoms. Measles is easily confused with innocuous conditions. A child with any kind of rash can be diagnosed with measles when they do not have it. At the very best diagnosis gets 3 out of 4 cases wrong when not measles with up to 73 out of 74 cases of what is diagnosed as measles being found not to be measles. Cited references for over-diagnosis can be found here: Vaccines Did Not Save Us – 2 Centuries Of Official Statistics.

    Bit of a poor effort on your part it would seem. Your point appears to be “.. there is nothing in this article to support the fact that an immunocompetent person can get a full blown case of the measles from a vaccine.” And there is nothing in it to say any case of measles is “full blown” [whatever that is meant to be], or that that is even relevant.

    This is priceless misdirection: “As to your assertion: “Firstly, the article states clearly at the outset “the vaccinated are more likely to kill a child because they are vaccinated”. Nowhere in the BMJ article can I find that quote. That’s YOUR article.

    That is exactly what we stated. You come here to make it look like we are quoting a cited paper when we were not. That is very very naughty unAmerican activity.

    You remarkably miss the point that where people catch measles it can be so mild they have no symptoms which demonstrates how mild the disease can be in a majority of cases so your “full blown” measles is again a myth.

    But you try to side-step being shown to be wrong by claiming “that’s an argument FOR vaccination“. But the discussion is not about whether people should or should not be vaccinated. It is about your claim to measles cases being “full blown” when the idea of “full blown” measles seems to be some kind of idea you have dreamt up.

    You then seem to think you have a point with “only one case report of transmission from vaccine-associated measles has been identified“. Well congratulations to whoever identified what a case report is about. Why would anyone want to claim [as you suggest they would] they were lying about identifying what a case report is about? Seems a little pointless.

    As for “climate change” that is the term universally used these days. But as your sources of information are biased sites like http::///www.skepticalscience.com anyone reading can make up their own minds about the value of your comments.

    Its been a blast, but …… ]

  13. I wasn’t apologizing for being american. I was stating that I was american, and apologizing in case “Cheers” means something different in the UK. But that’s representative of the way you don’t read or think carefully. And it WAS a good way to insult me again…

    Unfortunately I can’t agree that it’s been a blast. (and I don’t expect you to publish this, so feel free to moderate it out).

    [ED: What is appalling about people like you is that you are sick. You admit you are “immunocompromised”.

    But extremely selfishly you want healthy children to run the risk of becoming very sick just to protect you. And we know healthy children are not just getting sick – they are having their lives destroyed. It is now accepted that 1 in 68 American children are developing autism. And it is known they are getting it from vaccines as just the recent whistleblower case has shown.

    And we know health officials are untruthful and do vastly exaggerate disease risks to promote vaccination campaigns. There is referenced material on this site demonstrating that many times over.

    So how many hundreds of thousands of kids do you want to develop autism just for you? Just so that the risk to already sick people like you might be reduced.

    That is neither fair nor right that even just one healthy child should be made sick to protect adults who are already sick.

    If it is a choice between you dying and a healthy child getting autism from a vaccine and having the rest of their life destroyed, which do you choose?

    So you must be from California. Because that is where to find many people who think the rest of the world owe them everything and then go on to demand it.]

  14. This article is b.s. ..the difference is vaccinated children are protected during an outbreak, they either get a mild case or none at all. Unvaccinated children have no protection and get a full blown disease which can lead to problems, blind, deaf, crippled or dead. Being unvaccinated is a risk and they are the reasons preventable diseases pop up bc diseases come from our own bodies. Getting vaccinated deactivated the disease. Any child can get a a mild case of a disease during a vaccine shot but its so mild and rare, anything is better than a full blown disease.

    [ED: Thanks for such an erudite informative fact-filled comment addressing the issues in the comprehensive and detailed way you have done. Everyone reading it will be so much better informed by your effort – [not].]

  15. […] with the MMR and other attenuated live virus vaccines develops a vaccine version of the disease, sheds viruses, and can infect others. It is not only the unvaccinated who are spreading measles, which is […]

  16. […] with the MMR and other attenuated live virus vaccines develops a vaccine version of the disease,sheds viruses, and can infect others. It is not only the unvaccinated who are spreading measles, which is […]

  17. […] person injected with a attenuated live virus vaccine develops a vaccine version of the disease, sheds viruses, and can infect others. Thus, the herd immunity theory fails on three […]

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: